Roundtable ~ Chamber of Guilds

Gertrudis on Thursday 12 November 2009 - 08:55:22

Not to mention that guild rules are not being enforced, unsuitable initiates are busy running around trashing our name, and there's been no movement whatsoever on other things that would help us, such as giving/loaning orbs to new players who need gear-up, holding strategy reviews/discussions, giving direction to the poor guy who's now our DPS lead, etc.

Gertrudis on Thursday 12 November 2009 - 08:52:49

/snort

On a related note, I'm done raiding uless our GM stops leading raids. I've tried forum posts, PMs, whispers at non raid times, attempts to arrange conversations in vent, nada. I simply do not get a response.

There are 5 to ten-minute silences between pulls, during which no communication whatsoever is made to the raid about what's going on. We have wiped about 100 times on H beasts, with no progress whatsoever to show for it. Last night, in desperation, I told him EXACTLY what needs to be done to solve the problem we're seeing, and got, as usual, no response whatsoever from him.

Note that said solution had worked for 2 other guilds struggling to deal with low dps in that fight.

We're down to our hard core of regulars, with a few fill-ins who I'd hesistate to take on heroics, no joke.

Needless to say, I have seen zero effort towards recruiting appropriate raiders, on a server that's got enough flux that recruiting is generally not that hard.

Riprap on Thursday 12 November 2009 - 08:24:31

I'm sure it's mostly selection bias, but most of the time when people obsess about an item, it doesn't drop. Of course, there's gotta be some time to ramp up to it being an obsession.

We had a mage who was obsessing about The Lifebinder from Freya. We had 4 or 5 in the raid already when she started raiding with us, but no matter what, if she was along for Freya, we got those silly pants. She'd take a week off, and The Lifebinder would drop. Finally, she left the guild. The Lifebinder dropped the next 6 weeks.

Rhaina on Thursday 12 November 2009 - 07:13:59

I don't think it's bad to be like you are, Rip. I'm actually like that most of the time. However, given the specific content we are doing, that mace is my best upgrade (and the only one I'm likely to see) before ICC. I don't want to go to ICC with a KT mace.

Of course, I have given lots of thought to the fact that the one item I ever decided to farm specifically also decided not to drop for me ;-)

Meanwhile, holy gear drops left and right for my ret paladin. (They are separate characters for RP reasons. Don't ask . . . )

Riprap on Thursday 12 November 2009 - 07:03:13

I'm really never worried about gear. I never run an instance hoping something will drop. I never go in saying "I want to get this item". I just go if I want to go, or don't go if I don't want to go. If something cool drops, woot! If it doesn't, I don't worry about it.

Some folks might classify this as a lack of good planning. I think it's more that I don't let the RNG rule my life.

Singlestrike on Thursday 12 November 2009 - 05:33:45

Oh and of course all the tank gear I sharded in ToC and HToC while running it all those times now refuses to drop for my prot warrior.

Singlestrike on Thursday 12 November 2009 - 05:32:30

Its funny how RNG works out sometimes. While working on my paladins holy gear, without trying, I completed my prot set a long time ago.

Rhaina on Thursday 12 November 2009 - 00:37:00

I've been trying to get that mace, too. My third string shammy got it the one time she did hToC. My druid doesn't have it after 19 tries. My paladin has 43 tries under her belt and doesn't have it.

Honest to goodness, I'm going to take the hit sword from Ony. Any PUG that doesn't want me for that can kiss my ass.

Singlestrike on Wednesday 11 November 2009 - 19:31:01

I just find it amusing that guys who claim to know so much about the game cannot see how an item with 2-3 other stats on that are of a benefit to a spec is the equivalent of a rogue equipping healing leather.

Itanya_Blade on Wednesday 11 November 2009 - 17:44:45

Wow,

that's just cold and stupid.

Singlestrike on Wednesday 11 November 2009 - 16:18:01

My priest (and my paladin for that matter) have been trying to get the HToC mace since the instance was released. After 24 attempts on the priest and never seeing it drop (13 times for the Paladin. Druid got it first time through) I decided to give up trying when I got the caster dagger from there by default on my last run through. Over the weekend I was asked to heal in a 25 man regular Sarth pug. I showed up first, summoned the entire raid with a hunter and was booted from the group when the RL inspected me. I didnt even question why I was booted, I just hearthed back to Dal and was heading to the bank to log out when the RL sends me a tell saying "I know its regular ezmode Sarth and you have 2500 SP but it goes against everything I know to have a healer in my raid with a hit MH." I wish I had known at the time that this was coming from a dps DK wearing a shield block cloak.

Riprap on Wednesday 11 November 2009 - 12:40:05

hehe, that made me think of Dr. Evil, Rhaina.

"My father... would make outrageous claims, like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy."

Rhaina on Wednesday 11 November 2009 - 09:52:51

In that same thread, we have someone saying that requiring exalted Sons of Hodir makes a guild arrogant.

Random loot is random. Our best DPS (a lock) went into Ulduar wearing blue shoulders because we never saw epic ones she could use (we only got one shoulder token for her group and I won the roll on my paladin). That guy couldn't control what dropped for us in Naxx, but everyone CAN control whether they have Sons rep -- and while it was a royal PITA to get in the beginning, it's dead easy now. If you can't be bothered to have it, no, I don't want you in my raid.

*wanders off to find other ways to be ridiculously arrogant*

Riprap on Wednesday 11 November 2009 - 09:30:24

There's that creeping elitism again. The comment about "A paladin with a hit cloak wouldn't even be allowed in our raid".

Well, whoopty-doo for you. Not everyone who's going on raids has had access to previous raids, and sometimes you put on what's there in front of you. My paladin is wearing leather AP shoulders, because at 219, they're a damn sight better than anything I'm gonna get out of Heroics. But even then, some chowderhead Warrior comments on them in the tram.

Penlowe on Wednesday 11 November 2009 - 08:51:19

I bought Bacon Salt yesterday. It's Kosher

Itanya_Blade on Tuesday 10 November 2009 - 18:25:29

Hush you.

/waves stick ineffectually at Single

Singlestrike on Tuesday 10 November 2009 - 16:28:13

Everyone's favorite topic

Riprap on Tuesday 10 November 2009 - 16:04:52

I don't even agree that MP5 = Healers. I honestly think that MP5 is now a wasted stat. It doesn't scale with anything, and it isn't particularly good for any class (Intellect has really taken over as the 'regen' stat, unless you're in some raid group without Replenishment, Hymn of Hope, or other mana regen mechanisms).

Hammerstone on Tuesday 10 November 2009 - 14:41:27

Yeah, I guess in our case it was a healer (priest) who wanted to roll off spec on a dagger that had more intellect and spell power then his current dagger but instead of haste it had hit. He argued that hit made it off spec but the counter argument was the amount of intellect and spell power being upgraded from his old dagger to his new meant he was going to wear it in his main spec till a more suitable one came along.

Itanya_Blade on Tuesday 10 November 2009 - 14:22:41

In the 25 man that this 10 man used to be, We had a rule that straight DPS classes had no off spec. We did have one mage that kept trying ot take cloth gear as "off spec"

Realistically, Hammer, it usually comes down to the things Rip points out. Items with hit = DPS. (unless it also has defense stats) and Mp5 = Healers. Other than that its pretty ip in the air.

Riprap on Tuesday 10 November 2009 - 14:18:56

As far as our raiders, everyone has a 'declared' main role. So if I were to go on a raid where they need me as a shadow priest, I'd still be considered healing spec for items. A tank who DPS's the whole time is still a tank.

Riprap on Tuesday 10 November 2009 - 14:06:32

In your case, the items would be main spec and paid for. An item that has Haste on it instead of Crit, or MP5 instead of Spirit would still be main spec. If the item's not good for you, don't take it. If it is still good for you, take it and pay for it. Points aren't that important.

This last might be your real issue. If people are overvaluing points, they need to learn that points don't kill the boss.

Corrin on Tuesday 10 November 2009 - 14:05:55

For us, main spec is what you are doing in the raid. Are you tanking? Then tank gear is main spec.

Admittedly, there is some grey here but generally with the same 10-people week after week, it works out.

Riprap on Tuesday 10 November 2009 - 14:04:34

For us it's pretty simple. Off spec is hit on a healer, Tank gear for a DPS, melee gear for casters, caster gear for melees, and very very obvious melee DPS gear for tanks (armor pen, maybe crit, maybe low armor).

That's it. Everything else is main spec. "Pure DPS" has no offspec.

Hammerstone on Tuesday 10 November 2009 - 13:52:06

So how do you guys determine what is main spec or off spec? Twice now I have seen someone pass an item that was an upgrade for their main spec even though there was one stat on it that wasn't maybe a primary stat, then take the piece as off spec which in this guilds system means they didn't have to spend DKP. Then others pipe up that it should have cost that person and the discussion goes around for a few minutes on why it is main or off.

Riprap on Tuesday 10 November 2009 - 13:24:15

"Hey baby, is that DOS spec command line?"

Rhaina on Tuesday 10 November 2009 - 13:17:00

Erm, that's "DPS specc", not "DOS specc".

Rhaina on Tuesday 10 November 2009 - 13:16:30

Like I said, the loot system hardly ever comes into play. It's just there to provide historical data when none of us can remember what we wish we knew.

I say this as a holy paladin who does not take ret or prot gear except for very very rare cases where I want something for RP costume reasons. (My "DOS specc" is shockadin because I love it, even though it's not an OP specc. It's just fun to play -- and it uses holy gear.)

Itanya_Blade on Tuesday 10 November 2009 - 12:44:40

And I think the reason my group is less concerned is that the people who use the loot are constantly looking at each other.

The only person I compete with for plate DPS and Tank loot is the other tank (He's also DPS in my 25 man raid). We have a semi-regular pally healer, but he never takes anything offspec unless we beat him with it.

Pretty much the whole raid is like that. "Do you need this? What are you wearing?" etc.

of course, we're also hardcore hald-assed crazy people.

Rhaina on Tuesday 10 November 2009 - 12:36:40

We are a tight-knit group, but we have a zero-sum loot system. Why? Because we need a memory.

I'd say roughly 3/4 of the time, we don't even consult the system for allocation (although we do religiously charge points for all main specc items). Most of the time, we can easily determine who should get something. However when it's not obvious, the points remind us who's "more due" for loot. Essentially, we can let the loot system remember that Joe had a lucky RNG streak three months ago while Janey didn't -- so this item now is prioritized to Janey, all else being equal. Or Janey can know that it's hers if she wants it, and make the call that she thinks it's better for the raid if Jack takes it.

it's nice that the loot system remembers stuff like that for us, because it frees up memory cycles for knowing which color on the ground we should run out of vs, which color we should run into.