Roundtable ~ Chamber of Guilds: Forums / Meatloaf and other leftovers / A return to normal?

Roundtable ~ Chamber of Guilds :: Forums :: Meatloaf and other leftovers

A return to normal?

Singlestrike

Mon Aug 24 2009, 07:38AM

Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jul 09 2009, 05:16AM
{LOCATION} Registered Member #380

So my tiny guild ran into some big drama over the weekend and its something I haven't had to deal with for a long time. However, I ran my big mouth and I am concerned if all can be forgotten and everyone can move on. Early indications are No, and there is going to be some lasting effects.

A little about us: The GM labels us an extremely casual 10 man raid guild but even that is a bit of an understatement. Going strictly by roster and content, we are a bunch of retired 40 man raiders turned altoholics who primarly farm heroics with the occasional 10 man (typically 8 manned) thrown in when enough people log on with an hour or two to kill. Its an all adult guild mainly comprised of couples. The main core have been playing together for the last year and a half.

Saturday afternoon we appeared to be ready to throw an unscheduled Naxx together but a handful of us decided to throw our hats into WG to see if we can win and hit up Vault before going. We won and started putting the group together and this is basically where it all started.

There was a divide over whether or not to take on Emalon. Some felt as though we couldn't handle it and should skip it while others didn't feel like wasting an ID on half a raid and should stop being afraid of trying encounters that are challenging for some. Having done Emalon in pugs (alot of fail in there though) I felt like we could do it. The raid lead and MT bear didn't care either way, he just said he didn't want any drama if there were some wipes (apparently there was some sniping during attempts on him during the week which I wasnt around for).

Then came the debate over composition or rather, who was going to OT. Our best dps is (was) a 4k DK but after our Prot Warrior GL (not on at the time), our second best geared tank. The third best tank was already MTing. My dual specced paladin (tied for third I guess) could have tanked it but was needed to heal because there was only one other healer on. So our choices were the DK (who wanted to dps) or a prot paladin alt from Mr. Altoholic himself (an 80 of every class) who wanted to dps on a rogue. I argue'd that a heroic geared prot paladin could handle the adds and we should put our top dps in a dps role. The RL agreed and even though Mr. Altoholic was reluctant and let everyone know it, he went along with it.

We decided to skip vent since a few members were playing on laptops far from home and not going to use it. So as we pooled inside the instance, I began running down the encounter in raid chat. I wasn't aware of it at the time because he never said anything but the OT was afk while I was doing this (he told me later). The fight starts and the OT is not picking up the respawned add. We tell him this in raid chat, guild chat and I sent him a tell during the encounter. No dice.

Despite it all, it was a good attempt I thought. We got him down to 100k health but in the end, one of the respawns beat our only other healer and resto shaman to death thus wiping the group.

I was thinking no big deal, good attempt, we will get him on the next shot but it never came. Without provocation, the OT starts going emo about he didnt want to tank in the first place and didn't know what he was doing. The DK asked him "do you know how to move your character?" while the RL asked him if he read the strat and why didn't he hit 'Not Ready' if he didnt know what he was doing. The OT quits the raid.

Now its carried over into guild chat where the OT and DK are having words while others are getting on the DK in /ra for making a nasty comment. This goes on for a few minutes, the raid disbands and the DK gquits.

Some members weren't vocal about how they felt either way but those that were sided with the OT although a couple of others sent me a tell saying the agreed with me. Otherwise, my lone voice was the only support for the DK. I argue'd that sure, he was being a bit of a jerk by saying what he did but the official drama started with the OT quitting the raid in a huff.

Now the GL logs in and gets involved by verbally slamming the DK for having an elitist attitude and he always thought we would be better off without him. Wtf? The OT, in a fit of irony declares that he is sick of people running whatever alts/specs they want for themselves instead of whats good for the raid (I say irony because thats this guys whole game and was lobbying to bring his undergeared rogue beforehand).

So now I am the target of everyone's angst, I wouldn't concede about how I felt and the OT is extremely pissed off at me. The guild isn't speaking publicly to me or my GF (who stayed neutral) and I log my priest to do 25 man vault in a pug. They try to get another raid going but hey, our main healer is in a pug and there are a couple of emo log offs.

I awake early on sunday morning and log into a nasty gmotd and it was enough for me to remove all my characters from the guild.

This morning I had the GF reinvite me back but limit my promotions to that of a regular member. I suspect that things are going to be uncomforable over the next few days and Im not sure if things will go back to how they were. I most certainly do not feel like I said anything I shouldn't have but I know others will not agree with me on that. So now Im in some kind of wierd holding pattern until the air does or doesn't clear. I'm not inspired to talk to anyone in the guild about it either but maybe I should.

Thoughts? (I apologize for the wall o' text).

Evol

Mon Aug 24 2009, 08:06AM

Evol
Posts: 737
Joined: Sun May 27 2007, 02:32PM
{LOCATION} Registered Member #49

I think the OT is the source of the problem. I get that he didn't want to be there off-tanking, wanted to DPS, and that's fine. He gets points for making that sacrifice so that the raid can happen (because it wouldn't the other way around).

But, he loses all of those points by going AFK without mentioning anything, missing the explanation, and then trying to act like it's not completely his fault he didn't know what he was doing.

If I were your GM, I'd have removed the OT altaholic and gotten the DK back.

Gertrudis

Mon Aug 24 2009, 08:50AM

Posts: 422
Joined: Sun Jul 22 2007, 01:42PM
{LOCATION}

My thoughts are that you're spending a lot of time with people who don't play the way that you like to and that don't seem to treat you well or give you the benefit of the doubt.

Why are you there?

Riprap

Mon Aug 24 2009, 09:35AM

Posts: 1034
Joined: Wed May 23 2007, 10:11AM
{LOCATION} Registered Member #19

Yeah, this really sounds like something that must have been building for quite a while. Including, I have to say, the feeling that maybe you don't do enough for the guild (probably something that's not true, but hey, plenty of people complain about the flavor of free ice cream). The 'elitist' tag doesn't get thrown around by multiple people unless they've been bitching in secret channels about it, even if the guy's kind of a jerk.

My guess is that there's been a growing divide between the folks that seem to be represented by you, who sorta want to raid, but not be tied into a schedule, and think that while you're raiding, you might as well challenge yourselves and do as good a job as you can with it. Of the people mentioned in your post, I think you and the DK fit into this group. Then there are the people who are more anti-raid. They'll go if it's easy, and they can pick up loot. They're more interested in getting their 6th alt in heroic gear than getting one or two characters in Ulduar gear. They don't like being told what to do, and generally, they'd rather not do something than do it on a character they don't prefer at the moment.

And like I said, the tension's been building for a while. Maybe if you think back, you could see some signs, snarky remarks in guild chat, passive-aggressive behavior, etc. And now you've got a big blowup, and honestly, it's not going to return to what it was before. There will be a swing one way or the other, and I think we already see which way it's swung, given motd's that cause you to quit all your characters. I'd say your best bet is removing characters and getting on with your play elsewhere.

And another sociological note I'd like to add, this sounds like another situation where people come to the defense of someone who was wrong because someone else was mean to them. It matters less that the OT was afk unannounced, missed the explanation, wiped the raid with poor effort and paying attention, and then made lame excuses about it than the fact that someone who was doing his task correctly made a mean comment. This is either because they were in the guy's pocket (secret anti-elitist channel), or they have some propensity to not figure out what the issues are but rather to shout down anyone who's 'mean'. Either way, it's not a group that I'm particularly comfortable with.

"Rawr!" means "I Love You!" in dinosaur!

Singlestrike

Mon Aug 24 2009, 05:48PM

Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jul 09 2009, 05:16AM
{LOCATION} Registered Member #380

@Evol

I agree, the OT is the source of the problem but everyone immediately jumped all over the DK which is a red flag to me since like him, I pull no punches and shoot straight from the hip.

@ Gert

The opposite is true. I enjoy a similar playstyle (multiple 80's, small party content) and Ive been treated very well. I thoroughly enjoy the company of most of them. The only real difference between myself and most of my guildmates is that I enjoy PvP and take part in it regularly.

@ Rip

I think you are more or less correct in your assesment. For the most part everyone wants to raid and its been a goal of ours to finally fill out a raid with all guildmates with a single day set aside during the week to do it. I cannot deny there are those that are content with OS, Arch and the same two Naxx wings. After months of nothing, we've managed to recruit about 5-6 more players and I'd like to retain them. No goals will ever come to fruition if we are going to fear adversity.

I guess I was thrown off by the guilds reaction to it. At some point or another, everyone has complained either publicly or privately about how the OT handles his toons which changes as often as the winds blow. The DK's record is not squeaky clean but again, its not because he is a primadonna or an outright jerk, he just doesn't waste any words particularly when someone is complaining for essentially no reason.

I guess Ill get a better grasp on things when Im able to log in and put some time in which probably won't be until the weekend.

Thanks for the responses.